1787 Franklin Closing · Founding Made Plain

1Tuesday September 17, 1787 [FN1]

2IN CONVENTION

3The engrossed Constitution being read,

4Docr. FRANKLIN

5 rose with a speech in his hand,

6 which he had reduced to writing

7 for his own conveniency, [FN2]

8 and which Mr. Wilson read in the words following.

9Mr. President

10 I confess that there are

11 several parts of this constitution

12 which I do not at present approve,

13 but I am not sure I shall never approve them:

14 For having lived long,

15 I have experienced many instances of being obliged

16 by better information, or fuller consideration,

17 to change opinions even on important subjects,

18 which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise.

19 It is therefore that the older I grow,

20 the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment,

21 and to pay more respect to the judgment of others.

22 Most men indeed as well as most sects in Religion,

23 think themselves in possession of all truth,

24 and that wherever others differ from them

25 it is so far error.

26 Steele a Protestant in a Dedication tells the Pope,

27 that the only difference between our Churches

28 in their opinions of the certainty of their doctrines is,

29 the Church of Rome is infallible

30 and the Church of England is never in the wrong.

31 But though many private persons think almost as highly

32 of their own infallibility as of that of their sect,

33 few express it so naturally as a certain french lady,

34 who in a dispute with her sister, said

35 "I don't know how it happens, Sister

36 but I meet with no body but myself,

37 that is always in the right

38 -Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison."

39In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution

40 with all its faults, if they are such;

41 because I think a general Government necessary for us,

42 and there is no form of Government but what

43 may be a blessing to the people if well administered,

44 and believe farther that this is likely

45 to be well administered for a course of years,

46 and can only end in Despotism,

47 as other forms have done before it,

48 when the people shall become so corrupted

49 as to need despotic Government,

50 being incapable of any other.

51 I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain,

52 may be able to make a better Constitution.

53 For when you assemble a number of men

54 to have the advantage of their joint wisdom,

55 you inevitably assemble with those men,

56 all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion,

57 their local interests, and their selfish views.

58 From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected?

59 It therefore astonishes me, Sir, to find this system

60 approaching so near to perfection as it does;

61 and I think it will astonish our enemies,

62 who are waiting with confidence to hear

63 that our councils are confounded

64 like those of the Builders of Babel;

65 and that our States are on the point of separation,

66 only to meet hereafter for the purpose

67 of cutting one another's throats.

68 Thus I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better,

69 and because I am not sure, that it is not the best.

70 The opinions I have had of its errors,

71 I sacrifice to the public good.

72 I have never whispered a syllable of them abroad.

73 Within these walls they were born, and here they shall die.

74 If every one of us in returning to our Constituents

75 were to report the objections he has had to it,

76 and endeavor to gain partizans in support of them,

77 we might prevent its being generally received, and

78 thereby lose all the salutary effects & great advantages

79 resulting naturally in our favor among foreign Nations

80 as well as among ourselves,

81 from our real or apparent unanimity.

82 Much of the strength & efficiency of any Government

83 in procuring and securing happiness to the people,

84 depends, on opinion, on the general opinion

85 of the goodness of the Government,

86 as well as well as of the wisdom and integrity of its Governors.

87 I hope therefore that for our own sakes

88 as a part of the people,

89 and for the sake of posterity,

90 we shall act heartily and unanimously

91 in recommending this Constitution

92 (if approved by Congress & confirmed by the Conventions)

93 wherever our influence may extend,

94 and turn our future thoughts & endeavors

95 to the means of having it well administred.

96On the whole, Sir, I can not help

97 expressing a wish that every member of the Convention

98 who may still have objections to it,

99 would with me, on this occasion

100 doubt a little of his own infallibility,

101 and to make manifest our unanimity,

102 put his name to this instrument.-

103He then moved that the Constitution be signed

104 by the members and offered the following as a convenient form viz.

105 "Done in Convention

106 by the unanimous consent

107 of the States present

108 the 17th. of Sept. 1787-

109 In Witness whereof

110 we have hereunto subscribed our names."

111This ambiguous form

112 had been drawn up by Mr. G. M.

113 in order to gain the dissenting members,

114 and put into the hands of Docr. Franklin

115 that it might have the better chance of success.

116Mr. GORHAM said if it was not too late

117 he could wish, for the purpose

118 of lessening objections to the Constitution,

119 that the clause declaring

120 "the number of Representatives shall not exceed

121 one for every forty thousand"

122 which had produced so much discussion,

123 might be yet reconsidered,

124 in order to strike out 40,000

125 & insert "thirty thousand."

126 This would not he remarked establish

127 that as an absolute rule,

128 but only give Congress a greater latitude

129 which could not be thought unreasonable.

130Mr. KING & Mr. CARROL seconded

131 & supported the idea of Mr. Gorham.

132When the PRESIDENT rose,

133 for the purpose of putting the question,

134 he said that although his situation

135 had hitherto restrained him

136 from offering his sentiments

137 on questions depending in the House,

138 and it might be thought,

139 ought now to impose silence on him,

140 yet he could not forbear expressing his wish

141 that the alteration proposed might take place.

142 It was much to be desired

143 that the objections to the plan recommended

144 might be made as few as possible.

145 The smallness of the proportion of Representatives

146 had been considered by many members of the Convention

147 an insufficient security

148 for the rights & interests of the people.

149 He acknowledged that it had always appeared to himself

150 among the exceptionable parts of the plan,

151 and late as the present moment

152 was for admitting amendments,

153 he thought this of so much consequence

154 that it would give [FN3] much satisfaction

155 to see it adopted [FN4]

156No opposition was made

157 to the proposition of Mr. Gorham

158 and it was agreed to unanimously.

159On the question to agree to the Constitution enrolled

160 in order to be signed.

161 It was agreed to all the States [FN6]

162 answering ay.

163Mr. RANDOLPH then rose

164 and with an allusion to the observations of Docr. Franklin

165 apologized for his refusing to sign the Constitution

166 notwithstanding the vast majority

167 & venerable names that would give sanction

168 to its wisdom and its worth.

169 He said however that he did not mean by this refusal

170 to decide that he should oppose the Constitution without doors.

171 He meant only to keep himself free

172 to be governed by his duty

173 as it should be prescribed by his future judgment.

174 He refused to sign, because he thought

175 the object of the Convention

176 would be frustrated by the alternative

177 which it presented to the people.

178 Nine States will fail to ratify the plan

179 and confusion must ensue.

180 With such a view of the subject

181 he ought not, he could not,

182 by pledging himself to support the plan,

183 restrain himself from taking such steps

184 as might appear to him

185 most consistent with the public good.

186Mr. Govr. MORRIS

187 said that he too had objections,

188 but considering the present plan

189 as the best that was to be attained,

190 he should take it with all its faults.

191 The majority had determined in its favor

192 and by that determination he should abide.

193 The moment this plan goes forth

194 all other considerations will be laid aside,

195 and the great question will be,

196 shall there be a national Government or not?

197 and this must take place

198 or a general anarchy will be the alternative.

199 He remarked that the signing in the form proposed related only to the fact that the [FN7] States present were unanimous.

200Mr. WILLIAMSON

201 suggested that the signing should be confined

202 to the letter accompanying the Constitution to Congress,

203 which might perhaps do nearly as well,

204 and would he found be [FN8] satisfactory to some members [FN9]

205 who disliked the Constitution.

206 For himself he did not think a better plan

207 was to be expected and had no scruples

208 against putting his name to it.

209Mr. HAMILTON

210 expressed his anxiety that every member should sign.

211 A few characters of consequence,

212 by opposing or even refusing to sign the Constitution,

213 might do infinite mischief by kindling the latent sparks

214 which [FN10] lurk under an

215 enthusiasm in favor of the Convention

216 which may soon subside.

217 No man's ideas were more remote from the plan

218 than his [FN11] were known to be;

219 but is it possible to deliberate

220 between anarchy and Convulsion on one side,

221 and the chance of good to be expected from the plan on the other.

222Mr. BLOUNT

223 said he had declared that he would not sign,

224 so as to pledge himself in support of the plan,

225 but he was relieved by the form proposed

226 and would without committing himself attest the fact

227 that the plan was the unanimous act of the States in Convention.

228Docr. FRANKLIN

229 expressed his fears from what Mr. Randolph had said,

230 that he thought himself alluded to

231 in the remarks offered this morning to the House.

232 He declared that when drawing up that paper

233 he did not know that any particular member

234 would refuse to sign his name to the instrument,

235 and hoped to be so understood.

236 He professed a high sense of obligation to Mr. Randolph

237 for having brought forward the plan in the first instance,

238 and for the assistance he had given in its progress,

239 and hoped that he would yet lay aside his objections,

240 and by concurring with his brethren,

241 prevent the great mischief

242 which the refusal of his name might produce.

243Mr. RANDOLPH

244 could not but regard the signing in the proposed form,

245 as the same with signing the Constitution.

246 The change of form therefore could make no difference with him.

247 He repeated that in refusing to sign the Constitution,

248 he took a step which might be the most awful of his life,

249 but it was dictated by his conscience,

250 and it was not possible for him

251 to hesitate, much less, to change.

252 He repeated also his persuasion,

253 that the holding out this plan

254 with a final alternative to the people,

255 of accepting or rejecting it in toto,

256 would really produce the anarchy & civil convulsions

257 which were apprehended from the refusal of individuals to sign it.

258Mr. GERRY

259 described the painful feelings of his situation,

260 and the embarrassment [FN12] under which he rose

261 to offer any further observations on the subject

262 wch. had been finally decided.

263 Whilst the plan was depending,

264 he had treated it with all the freedom

265 he thought it deserved.

266 He now felt himself bound as he was disposed

267 to treat it with the respect

268 due to the Act of the Convention.

269 He hoped he should not violate that respect

270 in declaring on this occasion his fears

271 that a Civil war may result

272 from the present crisis of the U. S.

273 In Massachussetts, particularly

274 he saw the danger of this calamitous event-

275 In that State there are two parties,

276 one devoted to Democracy,

277 the worst he thought of all political evils,

278 the other as violent in the opposite extreme.

279 From the collision of these

280 in opposing and resisting the Constitution,

281 confusion was greatly to be feared.

282 He had thought it necessary, for this & other reasons

283 that the plan should have been proposed

284 in a more mediating shape,

285 in order to abate the heat and opposition of parties.

286 As it has been passed by the Convention,

287 he was persuaded it would have a contrary effect.

288 He could not therefore by signing the Constitution

289 pledge himself to abide by it at all events.

290 The proposed form made no difference with him.

291 But if it were not otherwise apparent,

292 the refusals to sign should never be known from him.

293 Alluding to the remarks of Docr. Franklin,

294 he could not he said but view them

295 as levelled at himself and the other gentlemen

296 who meant not to sign;

297Genl. PINKNEY.

298 We are not likely to gain many converts

299 by the ambiguity of the proposed form of signing.

300 He thought it best to be candid

301 and let the form speak the substance.

302 If the meaning of the signers be left in doubt,

303 his purpose would not be answered.

304 He should sign the Constitution with a view

305 to support it with all his influence,

306 and wished to pledge himself accordingly.

307Docr. FRANKLIN.

308 It is too soon to pledge ourselves

309 before Congress and our Constituents

310 shall have approved the plan.

311Mr. INGERSOL

312 did not consider the signing,

313 either as a mere attestation of the fact,

314 or as pledging the signers

315 to support the Constitution at all events;

316 but as a recommendation, of what, all things considered,

317 was the most eligible.

318On the motion

319 of Docr. Franklin

320N. H. ay.

321Mas. ay.

322Ct. ay.

323N. J. ay.

324Pa. ay.

325Del. ay.

326Md. ay.

327Va. ay.

328N. C. ay.

329S. C. divd. [FN13]

330Geo. ay. [FN15]

331Mr. KING

332 suggested that the Journals of the Convention

333 should be either destroyed,

334 or deposited in the custody of the President.

335 He thought if suffered to be made public,

336 a bad use would be made of them

337 by those who would wish

338 to prevent the adoption of the Constitution.

339Mr. WILSON

340 prefered the second expedient,

341 he had at one time liked the first best;

342 but as false suggestions may be propagated

343 it should not be made impossible

344 to contradict them.

345A question was then put

346 on depositing the Journals

347 and other papers of the Convention

348 in the hands of the President,

349 on which,

350N. H. ay.

351Mtts. ay.

352Ct. ay.

353N. J. ay.

354Pena. ay.

355Del. ay.

356Md. [FN18] no.

357Va. ay.

358N. C. ay.

359S. C. ay.

360Geo. ay. [FN19]

361The President

362 having asked what the Convention meant

363 should be done with the Journals &c,

364 whether copies were to be allowed

365 to the members if applied for.

366 It was Resolved nem:

367 con "that he retain the Journal and other papers,

368 subject to the order of the [FN22] Congress,

369 if ever formed under the Constitution.

370The members then proceeded to sign the instrument. [FN23]

371[FN24] Whilst the last members were signing it [FN25]

372 Doctr. FRANKLIN looking towards the Presidents Chair,

373 at the back of which a rising sun happened to be painted,

374 observed to a few members near him,

375 that Painters had found it difficult

376 to distinguish in their art a rising from a setting sun.

377 I have, said he, often and often

378 in the course of the Session,

379 and the vicisitudes of my hopes and fears

380 as to its issue,

381 looked at that behind the President

382 without being able to tell

383 whether it was rising or setting:

384 But now at length I have the happiness

385 to know that it is a rising and not a setting Sun.

386[FN24] The Constitution

387 being signed by all the members

388 except Mr. Randolph, Mr. Mason, and Mr. Gerry

389 who declined giving it the sanction of their names,

390 the Convention dissolved itself

391 by an Adjournment sine die-

392[FN26] The few alterations and corrections made in these debates

393 which are not in my hand writing,

394 were dictated by me

395 and made in my presence by John C. Payne.

396JAMES MADISON.

397FN1 The year "1787" is omitted in the transcript.

398FN2 The word "conveniency" is changed in the transcript to "convenience."

399FN3 The word "him" is here inserted in the transcript.

400FN4 Transfer the remarks in brackets, to the bottom marigin.

401FN5 This was the only occasion on which the President entered at all into the discussions of the Convention.

402FN5 Madison's direction is omitted in the transcript.

403FN6 The word "States" is italicized in the transcript.

404FN7 The transcript italicizes the word "the."

405FN8 The words "be found" are substituted in the transcript for "the found be."

406FN9 He alluded to Mr. Blount for one.

407FN10 The word "which" is changed in the transcript to "that."

408FN11 The word "own" is here inserted in the transcript.

409FN12 The transcript uses the word "embarrassment" in the plural.

410FN13 Genl. Pinkey & Mr Butler disliked the equivocal form of the [FN14] signing, and on that account voted in the negative.

411FN14 The word "the" is omitted in the transcript.

412FN15 In the transcript the vote reads: "New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, No

413rth Carolina, Georgia, aye-10; South Carolina, [FN16] divided."

414FN16 TO be transferred hither. [FN17]

415FN17 Madison's direction concerning his note is omitted in the transcript.

416FN18 This negative of Maryland was occasioned by the language of the instructions to the Deputies of that State, which required them to report to the State, the proceedings of the Convention.

417FN19 In the transcript the vote reads: "New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-10; Maryland, [FN20] no-1."

418FN20 Transfer. [FN21]

419FN21 Madison's direction concerning his note is omitted in the transcript.

420FN22 The word "the" is omitted in the transcript.

421FN23 In place of the word "instrument," the transcript inserts the following words: "Constitution, as finally amended, as follows." The Constitution is then inserted.

422FN24 These two final paragraphs of Madison's notes are transposed in the transcript to follow the signatures to the Constitution.

423FN25 The word "it" is omitted in the transcript.

424FN26 This statement and Madison's signature are omitted in the transcript.